Sustainability Lessons from a Dairy Operation in New York and Ohio, with Janette Veazey-Post

In this day and age, consumers have high expectations for how their food is grown and the practices that growers employ.

And for farmer Janette Veazey-Post of Lamb Farms, Inc. and Lakeshore Dairy, LLC, meeting those expectations is an important way to generate new revenue and give back to the land on her 13,000-acre operation.

In this week's episode, Janette joins us to discuss what prompted her jointly-run family operation in New York and Ohio to get involved in the Nutrien Ag Solutions carbon pilot, how she collects data on their operation, and how they benefited from incorporating sustainable practices in their farm fields last year. 

Plus, Tom and Sally talk about when growers can expect to learn more about Nutrien Ag Solutions sustainability program announcements for 2023 and what those might look like.

Learn more about the Nutrien Ag Solutions Sustainable Nitrogen Outcomes Program

Episode Transcript

Janette Veazey-Post:

I mean, at the end of the day, you want to be a respectable farmer. You want to treat the land the way that it's supposed to be treated. You want the consumer to respect you.

Dusty Weis:

Welcome to The Future. Faster. a sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions. With our very own Tom Daniel, director, North America retail and grower sustainable ag. And Dr. Sally Flis, senior manager, North America sustainable ag and carbon. This is your opportunity to learn about the next horizon in sustainable agriculture for growers, for partners, for the planet. To us, it's not about changing what's always worked. It's about continuing to do the little things that make a big impact.

Dusty Weis:

On this week's episode, Janette Veazey-Post, a dairy farmer with operations in New York and Ohio, joins us to discuss what prompted her jointly run family operation to get involved in the Nutrien Ag Solutions carbon pilot, how she collects data on their operation, and how they benefited from incorporating sustainable practices in their farm fields last year. But if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed to this podcast in your favorite app. Also make sure you follow Nutrien Ag Solutions on Facebook and Instagram. I'm Dusty Weis, and it's time once again, to introduce Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And, Tom and Sally, Nutrien Ag Solutions held its carbon summit a few weeks back now at Commodity Classic in New Orleans, such a great event. We got a lot of great feedback from the growers. But Tom, you said that you also got some questions, particularly a lot of growers curious about when we're going to be learning about next year's sustainability projects.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah, Dusty. So, a lot of the questions that came from the growers that attended that summit were specific to, "What are going to be the upcoming programs? When can we expect those announcements?" So forth and so on. And Sally, as we listen to those discussions we always recognize that any carbon program is really about all the farmer practices that are going to be initiated to that crop year. So, we even talk about cover crops. The fall cover crops of 2022 will be related to the 2023 crop, as far as tracking the practice to the crop. So, Sally, when do you view the optimal timing for us to have some of our program announcements out for 2023?

Sally Flis:

I think probably midyear, Tom. I think we've got to be getting those announcements out probably June, July, as people are starting to look at, did they get the crop in the field that they planned to get the crop in that field? Or, did they end up getting something else? And so, how does that change their crop rotation going into the next season? And so, already starting to think about input costs and especially with some of the supply chain pressures we have right now, I'm sure people will be start starting to think about sourcing and getting seed or fertilizer products that they need by mid-summer for the 2023 crop. And, I think one thing you and I were actually talking about this morning is how do we shift our programs into more of a continuous enrollment type situation, where we have an opening date for that crop season, but the program's always available, right?

Sally Flis:

So right now, we're trying to get growers signed up for sustainable nitrogen outcome in their 2022 crop, because there's still some opportunity to make those nitrogen management decisions, either before the crop grows in the ground, or before you go out to do a side dress, or some later in season applications. So, there's still opportunity for 2022, but really just continuing to roll that enrollment through the summer of... Now, that we've got that 2022 crop established and we're comfortable with where it's at in the field, what are you thinking you might want to do for 2023?

Sally Flis:

And this plays into another discussion we were having this morning, Tom, of who is going to really be the driver on deciding the value of carbon credits going forward. On our previous episodes, we've talked with people like Candace Lang who talked about the investor push on these reportings, versus what we've seen as challenges in the field for the push on, what's really practical for growers and ag retail to do? So, what are you hearing in the field as you talk to people and get a landscape of this on who is going to have the biggest influence on the value of carbon in the next 18 months or three years?

Tom Daniel:

Strictly from my opinion, I'm going to state that upfront. I think the value of the carbon credit, Sally, have to be somewhat based upon what the overall expense piece for the growers going to be around these programs. So, today that 15 to $20 a ton, as you hear the different markets out there around carbon, don't cover the cost. The initial things around sequester carbon. So they're not going to cover the cost of cover crops, or the cost of some of the practice changes of equipment changes to get to a no-till situation. They're just not going to cover those. So, the value for carbon is going to have to catch up to the practice change cost that we're asking a grower to initiate. Or, the growers going to have to look at practice change based upon not just the payment he receives from a change, such as cover crop or no-till, but he's going to have to look at the ROI from the agronomic side of it. What's the soil health benefit, or the water quality benefit that he may be shooting for?

Tom Daniel:

So, I think the value right now is the same value it has been. It's been in that $15 to $20 a ton range. But, as the market grows, it's a voluntary market in the U.S. So, we're looking at carbon prices based upon what people are willing to pay. And so, right now it seems to be a relatively low number. But, we need to see carbon in that $30 to $40 range per ton, to help pay for some of these practice changes we're going to ask for. So, those are some of the things that I see right now, is that where you were headed with the question?

Sally Flis:

Yeah, I think, we see that in the field, right? We've had some conversations recently where that average cost of a cover crop is maybe $32 an acre. So, at $15 a ton for carbon and less than a ton per acre, we're not getting close to having some really early on good return on investment for growers, right? It's costing them money. But the other big piece on there is, how does the buyer side or the investor side help us drive that value? I mean, they're asking for it, how do we help growers get a better value back per ton, because somebody is asking for this information. I've had multiple comments come in to me about how robust our ESG report was when it was released in the last few weeks.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. And those ESG reports are being published from multiple different companies and industries right now. And those are specific reports that the investors look at. In fact, we had Candice talk about ESG on one of our last podcasts, around what is an ESG and why is it important to the investment group. And investment groups today, are starting to have a green discussion, whether or not the company they're investing in has sustainable metrics that they're shooting for, or if they're actually helping in doing climate change opportunities in the field. So, that is one of the key pieces right now that we see.

Tom Daniel:

So we talk about sustainability being consumer-driven, and a lot of times people think, "Well, the consumer is the person who's buying the package off the shelf. Whether that product was sustainably sourced and sustainably grown." But the other consumer is also the consumer that's buying stocks today. And what they're investing in, in the marketplace. And they're looking for companies that have specific environmental goals attached, and are living by those goals, and making sure those goals are measured in the field. So, we're as concerned about the consumer who's buying a food product, or a fiber, or a fuel product today that agriculture products are attached to. But we're also concerned about the investor piece. Are they investing in our company because they consider us to be a green investment moving forward? And for a fertilizer company, that's something we have to strive for.

Sally Flis:

Yeah, exactly. Tom, another question that I got from growers and a little bit from some of our crop consultants, it was a short-term project for 2021. And again, we only have a one-year agreement for our 2022 work in the sustainable nitrogen outcomes. But, what is the purpose behind Nutrien doing these projects is a question that came up from a couple of different groups while we were at our carbon summit.

Tom Daniel:

I would say the main reason that we become involved in a lot of this is because, one, we have the direct contact with the grower. If you look at our grower interaction, we've got multiple crop consultants, and agronomists, precision ag people, digital agronomy, digital adoption people. We have tons of interactions with the grower. And because we have those interactions with the grower, we're the ones getting asked a lot of questions, "What are these carbon markets? Why are they out here? How can I participate?" And so, for Nutrien, we need to be that valued contributor for information back to the grower, we need to be a source of knowledge that we can help share with the grower, where we think the market is headed, how they should possibly give advice on participation, so forth and so on. So, one, I think one of the main components of us being in carbon today is because we're trying to be that value source of information back to the grower.

Tom Daniel:

Secondly, Nutrien as a company, we have a desire from a sustainability point of view to limit nitrous oxide emissions, which is some of the nitrogen products that we sell in fertilizer. And we want to be able to help our growers understand how we can grow and be more productive and maybe even reduce inputs on the acre, or at least get more production out of the inputs that we're currently using today. So we're increasing nitrogen or Nutrien use-efficiency on the farm. Those, I think are the two key components that we're working with. But I'd say the number one is, we want to be the advocate for the grower. We want to be the ones out there that are giving the best advice to the grower moving forward, so that they can take advantage of these different revenue streams as they become available.

Dusty Weis:

Well, and guys, having spent time with the growers at the carbon summit at Commodity Classic in New Orleans, we thanked them probably about 20 times for being a part of the pilot program, but also for the insights that they were willing to share with us and hearing from them was certainly one of the coolest parts about being in New Orleans.

Dusty Weis:

In fact, we had a chance to interview one of those growers for this podcast. Janette Veazey-Post is her name, she farms 13,000 acres and maintains a dairy herd of about 8,000 head. Everyone stands to benefit from some of the insights that she's uncovered over the last year in Nutrien Ag Solutions carbon pilot. So, Janette is coming up in a moment here on The future, faster. This is The future, faster, a sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions. I'm Dusty Weis, along with Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And we're joined now by Janette Veazey-Post, she's a grower from Western New York, an operation that consists mainly of dairy, with a little bit of corn silage and alfalfa as well. Basically, feeding those 8,000 head of cow that they've got there, and 13,000 acres total in the operation. So Janette, thank you so much for joining us on The Future. Faster.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Thank you.

Dusty Weis:

For starters, just tell us a little bit more about the operation. I understand that it's actually a partnership between two families that's been going for a better part of 50 years now.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Yep. So, we're a partnership between a Lamb family and the Veazey family. The Lambs oversee all the dairy cows. And, the Veazey's take care of all the crops, putting up the feed for the cows, and we take care of all the bookwork.

Sally Flis:

So Janette, one of your operations is a couple miles from my house, just down the road from us. And then, the other one is just a little bit east of us. And, working with your crop consultant at your New York location, you got interested and we visited with you on our 2021 carbon end-to-end pilots. Why were you guys interested in participating in a carbon pilot this year?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So I think trying to show the consumer what we're doing and carbon is a big part of that, it's become pretty popular. So, it was brought to our attention. So, we just wanted to try it and see how it would fit into our operation.

Tom Daniel:

So, carbon has become one of those key buzzwords, right? That's all we're hearing about everywhere. And so, one of the purposes of the pilot that we had this year was to learn, right? And to figure out what we liked, what we didn't like as we move forward. So, from your perspective in 2021, what did you like about the program that you participated in and give us the dislikes too?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, it was really easy to join. It was a lot of data collection, but Nutrien made it very easy for us, as long as we could supply them the data, they entered it in for us. So, the ease of that was super beneficial. It would've been hard if we had to do it all ourselves.

Tom Daniel:

Anything else that you can think of that you particularly liked about it? I guess you got paid, right?

Janette Veazey-Post:

Yeah. We got paid. That's always a good part, right?

Tom Daniel:

Okay. That's a key thing. But data entry is a problem. And, it was one of our goals, we called it the white glove treatment. For 2021, we said, "We were going to let our growers provide the data, and then we would do the manual entries and get it into the system." But that's something over time everybody's going to have to recognize, data's a big, important part of these pilots going forward.

Sally Flis:

So, you guys have a really robust data collection system, as we went in to pull out the things that we needed. What pushed you guys to keep the level of detail on every pass you're doing on that field and all the stuff that's going on within every single field on 13,000 acres?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So for me, I'm very data-driven. So, the more information I can get and learn from, the more improvements we can make.

Dusty Weis:

As you look at the data that was collected over the last year, I mean, what are some of the insights that you learned about your own operation? What changes are you going to be able to incorporate going forward, do you think?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, I think some of that is just going to be able to do more. We didn't do as much as we wanted to, especially on variable rate fertilizer, we didn't do as much we wanted to in '21. And I think in '22 we will.

Tom Daniel:

Farming has to be flexible, right? And even our carbon programs have to be flexible based upon the condition that you're facing in the field all the time. You have good intentions. What did Michael Tyson say? You've got a great plan until you get hit in the face the first time and then things fall out. So, I think these programs have to be flexible, because things are going to occur, that's going to kick you out. What were some of the things that kept you from doing what you wanted to do as far as variable rate or any of the other practices, maybe?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, weather played a huge role. We were very rushed last year, even at planting. So I like to do variable rate by manure spreading. And so, we'd spread the manure and then we can apply variable rate fertilizer where the manure doesn't get. And, last year was just tough to get it from the manure spreaders into the software and back to the planner, when it was go-time, it was go-time, because of all the rain. And so, even in summer with side dressing, we were going to do a lot more variable rate side dressing as well, and it was just timing.

Sally Flis:

So Janette, the carbon around soil crop management is only one side of what you can do with reducing emissions, especially in a livestock operation with the dairy cattle. I know you guys have manure digesters on the farm and are already listed on some of the carbon registries as taking advantage of the benefits of reducing methane emissions from the manure digestion. How did you guys get involved in that part of your sustainability programming?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So I think, become a sustainable on the whole dairy is important. They brought to our attention about getting carbon for the methane. And so, we did sign on for that. We have two digesters on two of our dairies. And so, we did buy into that.

Sally Flis:

How are you guys managing the difference in the quality or consistency of products you get out of those manure digesters, versus previous manure management you were doing on the farm?

Janette Veazey-Post:

I mean, to be able to get more sustainable is the goal. When we first put in the digesters, we were collecting the methane for electricity. Now we're working with another company and they are actually taking the gas off of it. And, they clean it, and they compress it, and they put it right into the natural gas line.

Sally Flis:

Are you guys reusing your solids as bedding in that system?

Janette Veazey-Post:

We do. So, all of our manure is separated after it goes through the digester, is separated and all the liquid gets spread as nutrients in the field, and the solids get bedded for the dairy cows.

Tom Daniel:

So, Janette, I'm going to ask a question a little bit outside of carbon here, but you mentioned trying to become more sustainable on the farm and the dairy operation too obviously. Are you finding value in tracking sustainability through the milk process and all that type of output? Are there any values you see being created from that today? Are you seeing markets becoming available? Are you even trying to participate in anything like that?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, for our dairy in Ohio, we participate in a sustainability program. And so, they actually take everything that we do, which comes to collecting all that data. And so, I can give them all this information from every single pass that we apply to a field, and they can say what our carbon footprint is. So, it's really neat and cool information. And I wish we could do more of something like that in New York, but our milk market in New York isn't to that point.

Tom Daniel:

Are there any premiums that you can earn from doing that?

Janette Veazey-Post:

Actually so, they give us funding for it. Help us with some sustainability programs. They helped us purchase a cover crop tool to apply cover crops. And even in the barns and with the dairy cows, they can help us with tracking our water usage and fans. They can all go on thermostats and timers, and it's helped us learn a lot too.

Tom Daniel:

Good value there, at least.

Sally Flis:

So along those lines, Janette, carbon has been the focus of sustainability discussions probably for a couple years now, Tom, with it being that lead headline of things. It sounds like you guys are doing a ton of other sustainability stuff that may have links back to carbon, but not necessarily what we talk about in carbon all the time. What are some of the other sustainable practices you guys are implementing across the whole operation, from the fans and the water use efficiency pieces that you're looking at on one of your operations, what's that whole farm sustainability picture for you guys?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, I think we're still learning on what to do. We just did an expansion over at one of our dairies. Even the curtains on the barns goes off a temperature and wind. And so, they'll come up and down, is most comfortable for the cows. So, even though we're trying to become sustainability, we're not taking away from the cow comfort and producing high quality milk.

Sally Flis:

What are some of the feed management aspects you guys look at in sustainability? We've got in your field records, all the individual field passes, but what are other data points in there on storage, or shrink, or that stuff around feed inventories that you're looking at?

Janette Veazey-Post:

Every load of feed that comes in is weighed, every truckload of corn silage we harvest, every truckload of haylage that we harvest, everything is weighed across scales and put into a software and it's tracked. And then, as they feed out, every bucket full, every feed mix that they do is kept track of the monitor.

Sally Flis:

You guys for sure have a lot of data.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Told you I was data-driven.

Dusty Weis:

That's awesome. And you said that earlier, alluding to how you were data driven. Ultimately at the end of the day, these investments that you're making in equipment, in practices, in the digesters, that's an investment on your parts. So, how do you track in your data the ROI that you see on those investments?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, it's all in our programs that we have. And that's one of the reasons why we have them, is so we can track. I think a lot of people know... Or they think that they know what their costs are, but until you put it into a sheet or a software, I'm not really sure that you do.

Dusty Weis:

But, all that is to say, when you look at the bottom of that spreadsheet, what has that ROI been? Have you found that yet?

Janette Veazey-Post:

Yeah. We're working on it. The hardest part about figuring out your cost is... So, we strip till, so you take that strip till machine and how do you come up with your price per acre that you want to put on that? So that's the hard part. So, we go off of custom rates, and just put a number in. But, I mean, until you know how long you're going to keep a piece of equipment, it's really hard to know exactly what your cost is against that. So, I'm still trying to figure it all out. And, I do love my spreadsheets, but I keep track of all of our repairs on all of our equipment to try, and distribute at across of our acres. That's probably one of the hardest things to do.

Dusty Weis:

It's very thorough. Very thorough.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Yeah.

Sally Flis:

So Janette, a lot of the stuff that... Some of your record keeping for your operations goes back to that, you guys fall under state regulations for concentrated animal feeding operation in New York, with the number of cows that you have. How has having to be in a program like a CAFO program and have a permit, either hindered you guys making changes on the farm or encouraged you to make more changes on the farm?

Janette Veazey-Post:

I would say it's made a little harder, just because of all the paperwork you have to do and everything you have to keep track of. But, I mean, at the end of the day, you want to be a respectable farmer. You want to treat the land the way that it's supposed to be treated. You want the consumer to respect you. So, I think that part of those programs... Or those permits, at the end of the day, that's what you're getting from it. I mean, it does make things difficult, but it also makes us better farmers too.

Tom Daniel:

Well, it sounds like Janette, a lot of the things you're doing are more or less on a voluntary basis too. So, you're doing some things to keep your permits obviously, but the there's a lot of stuff you're doing that are voluntary. You're looking to create a sustainability platform for yourself. How much planning in the future are you doing? And, I always tell everybody that I'm always looking to where the finish line is. So, if you're looking for the finish line for sustainability on the farm, how far out are you looking? Are you looking at 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? How much planning are you going into?

Janette Veazey-Post:

When we're talking about sustainability, we're preparing for the next generation. So, I guess, the end would be for me the next generation. When I'm really looking at the fine details and say where I want to be in five years. But sustainability I think is what's going to help the next generation, and to have your soil health, and just a better environment at the end of the day is what we're looking for.

Sally Flis:

As you guys look to the next five years, what are some new practices you've seen, or products, or equipment on the horizon that you're interested in pursuing in that next five years of practices or plans?

Janette Veazey-Post:

Well, I mean, for 2022, you look at how high our costs are going to be this year. So this is a year that you need to get better at anything that you do. So, to be able to utilize nutrients a little bit more efficiently, I think is what my biggest goal is right now.

Tom Daniel:

And I'm assuming your variable rate technologies and those type things are all going to come into play this year, as you're trying to reduce your inputs on the- [crosstalk 00:22:28]

Janette Veazey-Post:

Absolutely.

Tom Daniel:

... Yes.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Mother nature's not going to get it in the way this year.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah, okay. I'll check in with you in May.

Dusty Weis:

Well, let's get real science fiction here then Janette, you were telling me before that you've also recently become a hobbyist drone pilot. Flying your drone over the fields and taking pictures and video of the farm. And of course that's really cool. But, do you see any application for that in your operation? 5, 10, 20 years down the road here?

Janette Veazey-Post:

Oh, absolutely. I mean, to be able to go into a field and see it from an aerial shot, I think is going to be huge beneficial. That's not what I've used it for yet, but.

Dusty Weis:

Down the line, what do you see? I mean, to see it from overhead to get that aerial view, how does that help you in your operation?

Janette Veazey-Post:

To be able to see how the corn crop is doing? So there's a lot of imagery out there right now. And, we utilize it a little bit, not as much as we should, only if we feel like there's a problem in the field, we'll use it. If we kept more track of our imagery and be able to go up and look at things, it's just something that we got to get better at doing.

Dusty Weis:

Right. Yeah. Well, you guys have 13,000 acres and that's a whole lot of land to inspect on foot, so.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Absolutely.

Dusty Weis:

I can see where having that aerial perspective really starts to come in handy. Do you guys have any other questions for Janette?

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. How in the world do you milk that many cows? That would probably be my finishing question for the day.

Dusty Weis:

They got this new rotary milker.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Yeah.

Dusty Weis:

She was just showing me pictures.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Yeah. So we just put on a 72 stall robotic rotary parlor, that's been running one year.

Sally Flis:

It's always important to talk to the grower about what the resource concern is. And Janette, it sounds like you've got multi-level resource concerns, whether it's environmental, or economic, or social, if you're are looking at adding things like a rotary parlor that's robotic, you guys are also being challenged probably with having enough staff to get everything done on a farm your size. So, what would be your top two resource concerns, whether it's economic, or environmental, or social at this point?

Janette Veazey-Post:

So, I think environmental is probably top. And social, I think is right behind. Everybody wants to know where their food comes from and that's gotten really, really big. And I think farming has laid back on that for too long. And so, we have to build back up from there. And so, social is definitely huge.

Dusty Weis:

Well, Janette, we preach on this podcast pretty regularly that growers are stewards of land. And certainly, your operations in Western New York and in Ohio as well, serve as a great example of that. It's been really fun to learn more about your operations. So thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for joining us on The future, faster.

Janette Veazey-Post:

Thank you.

Dusty Weis:

That is going to conclude this edition of The future, faster, the pursuit of sustainable success with Nutrien Ag Solutions. New episodes arrive every other week, so make sure you subscribe in your favorite app, and join us again soon. Visit futurefaster.com to learn more. The Future. Faster. podcast is brought to you by Nutrien Ag Solutions, with executive producer Connor Irwin and editing by Larry Kilgore III. And it's produced by Podcamp Media, branded podcast production for businesses, podcampmedia.com, or Nutrien Ag Solutions. Thanks for listening. I'm Dusty Weis.